INSUBCONTINENT EXCLUSIVE:
??????? ??????? ?????? ?????.Ilya Yashin, a Moscow opposition deputy and ally of late politician Alexei Navalny, was one of 16 prisoners
freed by Russia in a historic exchange with the West on Aug
He had been serving an 8.5-year sentence for denouncing the invasion of Ukraine.On Nov
17, Yashin, Yulia Navalnaya and Vladimir Kara-Murza will lead a protest in Berlin calling for Russian troops to withdraw from Ukraine, for
Putin to be tried as a war criminal and for the release of political prisoners.The Moscow Times spoke to Yashin about working in exile, the
election of Donald Trump, Russia's future after Putin and how he reaches Russians inside Russia with his message.This interview has been
edited for length and clarity.The Moscow Times: You are preparing to hold a rally in Berlin
Judging by comments on the internet, even opposition-minded Russians are already very burned out and desperate and are becoming more
Should a politician react to this, or should he stay cheerful no matter what?Ilya Yashin: I don't think you should let comments on the
They are always more depressing than reality
On the contrary, I see that there is a demand to come together, to participate in the anti-war resistance, to do something useful.Yes, it is
clear that there are problems
After almost three years of war, people are tired and there is not much good news
But I would not over-dramatize it.MT: So, the march is intended to encourage people who are tired?IY: To inspire
Because nothing energizes people like having a lot of like-minded individuals around
Again, I see it in my meetings
People leave with fire in their eyes, not only because of what I tell them, but because they see people with similar views around them
They are talking and getting to know each other and seeing that they are not alone
We decided to formulate a few theses around which we can rally a lot of people
We succinctly and clearly formulated our political demands: the withdrawal of troops from Ukraine, the resignation of Vladimir Putin and his
Russia who are disenfranchised
We want to be a voice for them
Waalse Kerk, Amsterdam.Aleksandr VasiliukhaMT: There are several possible scenarios for the future that I want to ask you about
it's all guessing, pardon me, by reading coffee grounds
No one knows what lies ahead
Life has taught us that no forecasts, no analytics work in reality
This war is isolating our country, turning it into a gas station for China
It is taking a huge number of human lives
My job is to explain to people, literally by counting on my fingers, how this war is destroying the future of an entire generation
So I don't think about hypotheticals
I don't guess what the future will be, I try to shape it.MT: Still, there are things that it makes sense to prepare for.For example, if
Putin were to die tomorrow, it would not be immediately clear whether the war would end or whether repressive laws would be abolished.What
will you do then and what will you call on your supporters to do?IY: If Vladimir Putin disappears somewhere, it is obvious that there will
be a power struggle in Russia
It will be a difficult one, and it may be bloody, but there will definitely be a space for political competition
I am absolutely sure that the democratic movement will be a part of this struggle, because it has a significant number of supporters in
Therefore, if Putin goes away, we will fight for power.MT: Will you immediately go back to Russia?IY: Everything I am doing is aimed at
All my thoughts are associated with returning
I understand that it is impossible to change Russia from the outside
Although I have some thoughts
As soon as I have the opportunity to be in my own country, I will use this opportunity immediately.MT: At what point will you tell your
claimed to be able to see the future], and I am afraid that I am unlikely to be able to give an answer that will fully satisfy you
Because, unfortunately, I have no ability to look into the future.One thing I can say is that as soon as there is an opportunity to go back,
Yashin giving an address at De Waalse Kerk, Amsterdam.Aleksandr VasiliukhaMT: Is it possible or even necessary to unite the Russian
opposition, given that everyone is quarreling with everyone else?Do you have a position on the conflicts between FBK and [Maxim] Katz over
any of these so-called investigations or the responses to them
for uniting the opposition, it is clear that the conflicts run so deep and, unfortunately, are not so much political as personal, that it is
victory affect us?IY: In the United States, not as much depends on the personality of the president as, for example, in Russia
There are institutions so Trump won't be able to do whatever he wants
Such that he would look like a winner and triumphant
Everyone would compare him to Biden, who withdrew from Afghanistan
I think he understands this very well
But in general, of course, the entire Western system will face a serious stress test, because Trump is clearly determined to shake up the
existing international institutions in the Western world.MT: A lot of what is happening right now feels apocalyptic: Putin, Trump, war in
Ukraine, right-wing politicians winning in Europe
What is the job of a democratic politician in this situation?IY: Our job is to calm you down so that you don't overdramatize what is
America has already been tested by Trump once, and I think it will be tested again
Sometimes not very nice, sometimes bloody, sometimes dramatic
I live in Germany now, for example
it's one of the freest cities in the world, where you can do what you want and be who you want to be
He's not the future after all.MT: After the prisoner swap, rights activists have noted a decrease in support for political prisoners
remaining in Russia, because the high-profile names are free.If, let's say, there are more exchanges, Western countries are unlikely to
agree to exchange ordinary Russians who are not politicians or activists.What should we do with these people?IY: We are doing everything in
our power to keep this interest alive
Every meeting with Western politicians and officials always starts with the topic of political prisoners and the need to organize new
For example, before my meeting with [French] President Macron, he was given a list of Russian political prisoners who need to be rescued
because they are literally dying in prison.Ilya Yashin signing books at De Waalse Kerk, Amsterdam.Aleksandr VasiliukhaMT: What do you think
polarized points of view is the real federalization of Russia
I know what I am talking about, because I myself have worked at the municipal level
We need to respect the rights of the regions
We need to understand that people in Vladivostok, in Murmansk, in Komi, in Khabarovsk know how to organize their lives much better than
officials in Moscow offices
Regional leaders should not be appointed from Moscow, and the system of relations between Moscow and the regions should change
stay informed about what Russians inside Russia are thinking?IY: Well, first of all, look, I didn't leave that long ago
I was in Russia just three months ago
Secondly, a lot of my friends and a lot of like-minded people remain in Russia
My parents live in Russia
So I don't have the feeling that I have lost my emotional connection with my country
I think I know my country well
And I feel good about my people.I realize, of course, that the longer one is in exile, the harder it is to maintain that emotional
But I can tell you sincerely that I do not feel like an emigrant.MT: I also judge opinions inside Russia by my relatives, and they would be
furious about literally everything we are talking about right now.If my mom were here...IY: I think that if your mother were here, I would
find a common language with her
It is clear that it is necessary to return to Russia, of course
So the global task is to find a way to return to Russia, to work in Russia
Without that, nothing will work
Because I can hardly convince your mom through an interview in The Moscow Times
Your mom has to be spoken to in Russia..
On the other hand, I see a great need for people who are doing what I'm doing
It was also empowering when I was in prison, by the way
